and that's really not the moral question. the question is should we be doing it at all? >> but, let me ask you, vicki, do you know if the torture that was introduced after 9/11 produced usable intelligence? >> well, no, during the period of time after 9/11 that i was general counsel of the senate intelligence committee, i personally, was not privy to those programs. to the extent that they were going on, at that time, and to the extent that they were briefed to congress, they were briefed to a tiny gang of four, or gang of eight, group within the congress. so staffers didn't know about it. there was no oversight of it. so, i don't know. i do know, though, that senator feinstein has finally gotten, she's the chairman of the senate intelligence committee, has finally gotten a report out of the committee, through the republicans and senate vote, allegedly it's 6,000 pages long. and it covers all things torture. and she's very upset about the film. and she believes that whatever you want to say about torture and its human rights violations, that it did not produce the intelligence that the film suggests that it did.